When Wittner CEO Catherine Williamson set herself the goal of becoming CEO at 35, she wasn’t counting on giving birth to twin girls shortly after her 34th birthday...

Despite the vision board she’d created around that particular milestone, she accepted that it wasn’t going to happen. Or not on schedule, at least. But manifestation is powerful, she says. “It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you’ve got to make these dates for yourself. And then you gravitate towards them. And then you make the decisions that you know will get you there, consciously and sometimes unconsciously.” And get there she did – at the age of 35, when her twins were just 18 months.

It had been a long road to CEO, with Williamson starting out at Wittner as a casual employee attracted by the staff discount. She was picked out for head office, and she remembers receiving the call while at a Ben Harper concert, because “I was at a time in my life that I wasn’t going to give up a Ben Harper concert. I took the call in the toilet, and I still laugh about that to this day with Michael Wittner, that I was there just like, ‘shh,’ hoping no one flushed the loo”.

But while Williamson runs a tight ship, responsible for steering one of Australia’s beloved heritage brands and its 400 staff through Covid, and a new chapter in sustainability – never mind the responsibilities of parenting twin preschoolers – don’t for a moment think she’s having it all. “I like to say I don’t keep it all together… I have been burnt out once that I admit in my life, and a lot of other times that I’ve become exceptionally close. And I suppose I share that and I talk to people openly about that because it’s a work in progress.”

To kick off our In Her Shoes series, in partnership with Wittner, our founder Georgie Abay has interviewed Williamson on The Grace Tales Podcast. This exciting new series gives us the rare opportunity to briefly step into the lives of the women who inspire us and discover the strength, courage and ingenuity that has got them to where they are today. Williamson tells us about her leadership style and why she thinks women make great CEOs, as well as the traits her best bosses demonstrated, and what she’s learned about the motherhood penalty. It’s safe to say, Wittner’s future is in good hands. And great shoes, of course.

Go to wittner.com.au

Listen to the podcast episode here

Was becoming a CEO a goal of yours?

Yes. It was just one of those things that I plucked out of me, if you like, ‘I'm going to be a CEO by 35.’ And then I vision boarded it. I love making vision boards. There was no particular strategising on a trajectory, it was just out there. And then I had my girls when I was a few months past my 34th birthday. So I thought, okay, I'm not going to achieve that milestone. I'm not going to make it, I've only got 10 months to go. But I was lucky enough for it to happen. I really believe in manifesting, and if you put it out there and you say it and you believe in it, then things have a funny way of energising and circulating to them.

It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you’ve got to make these dates for yourself. And then you make the decisions that you know will get you there, consciously and sometimes unconsciously. 

Wittner was founded back in 1912, by HJ Wittner. And walking the Wittner way is a philosophy that has stayed with the brand from the beginning. So tell me, what does this philosophy mean to you?

‘Walk the Wittner way’ is really a philosophy about innovation and adaption, and continuously moving forward by listening to what your customer wants. And we're very proud that we were the first mail order business in Australia. And that was all about customers who actually couldn't travel to the city. And so we started the mail order catalogue, and we got to our customers that were across Australia. We were also the first business in Australia to have a form of e-commerce, so a website in the '90s, which is critical.

As we’re talking, 100 years down the track, we wouldn’t be around if we didn’t continuously know that we had to innovate and transform our business, and understand that every period requires us to shift and adapt in line with our consumers and our community. And that’s very much a testament to our business and our history.

You used to be a Wittner employee, so tell me, what are your earliest memories of Wittner?

I love telling this story. Once I finished my honours, I moved to Sydney, and at that stage a group of friends and I, we all said we need to find some money. So we walked the corridors of Warringah Mall, and we went, ‘Which brands do we like? Who do we want to work for?’ I put my resume in with Wittner, and I worked at the Warringah store - I loved it. One of those critical decisions you make at that time is where are you going to get the best staff discounts that is going to resonate with your life. So that was like a win-win! And I had a great time there. 

I was a casual employee and then I was asked to have a coffee with the regional manager. Now this regional manager, I'm going to name her because she is an icon within our business, her name is Sandy Bos, and she had worked for the business for 35 years before she retired recently. And Sandy said to me, ‘We've got to get you to head office. So one of the Wittner family will call you.’ And I still remember like yesterday, because the time that was set up to call me, I was at a Ben Harper concert. And I was at a time in my life that I wasn't going to give up a Ben Harper concert. So I took the call in the toilet, and I still laugh about that to this day with Michael Wittner, that I was there just like, ‘shh,’ hoping no one flushed the loo, to take this call.

And he gave me an opportunity. I came down to Melbourne and I started my internship at the support office for Wittner. And I stayed there a couple of weeks, until basically no one said anything and I kept showing back up. And I worked my way up to run the product team. But why I love that story is because it is all about opportunities, and for someone believing in you, maybe before you believed in yourself, and it's very much in terms with the culture that has been ingrained within the business, that look anywhere and look within. 

It's something that I'm very, very proud that we've continued. We have internships running at the moment where we ask any of our store team, ‘If you want to put your hand up, please do,’ and we'll find a way that we can utilise your new thinking and your skillset. We're about to partner with RMIT and to do an industry partnership. And we hope from that there will be opportunities and pathways that come through for that graduate talent and younger talent. It is a critical thing that one coffee, 30 minutes of someone's time, can actually change the course and trajectory and opportunities for anyone. So give that time. 

When I look at a brand, I need to see more than product. And you have talked about purpose. So can you talk to me about the importance of storytelling?

This is so critical now, because what is expected from us as you're saying, what is wanted by the community, is to make sure that the brand resonates on another level with you. And that might be about alignment of purpose, alignment of values, alignment of beliefs, but something more than the just an item of individual service. And I think now where we're truly in a global market, you can get anything from anywhere and there's brands everywhere, there's brands popping up every second - what's so important is to build that connection with the community, and to then make sure that you are showing up for them. And so I just think storytelling is such a wonderful opportunity. 

Left: Cat wears Quendra pump in Sunkissed Tan Patent.

Right: Cat wears Casanova Siren Pink Sandal

Wittner has 60 stores and over 400 staff, and we were just talking about how tricky that is right now, given lockdowns and restrictions. So tell me about the company culture you've created and what you have learned personally about hiring great staff?

I am very fortunate to step into a business that has a family element, and has fostered a culture very much in terms of support and encouragement and dedication. I think now we have to think about the work-life balance and what that means. We’ve definitely put the health and safety of our team first. 

What I've learned in terms of hiring great staff is looking for grit and determination. And that's definitely where they've got the sparkle in their eye, and they're very much hungry and they want to push themselves and they want to do a good job. 

There's a base level of knowledge that is transferable. So I don't think it matters what industry you're in, you could absolutely pivot from one to the other. I think formal qualifications really do help as a foundation, but they're not critical for what's required, it's definitely how that person is in terms of how they show up and how are they willing to really have a go and understand.

According to recent studies, around 373 million plastic bottles end up as waste each year in Australia. And I'm sure many of us know this, but repeating it, it's just quite shocking. One of the things that you have implemented is Wittner's new sustainability initiative, a highly anticipated recycled range. So tell me about this initiative and why it has been so important to you, and I also want to talk about how you banned plastics within your stores and you now use recycled paper bags and recycled eco boxes, which is a huge move. So let's start with the new sustainability initiative.

The new range was the first step in an overall focus for us in sustainability. And as a business, we haven't just communicated it and put it to our customer so that she could understand what we were focused on. This particular sustainability range and the utilisation of plastic came from the team. And that's what I love the most, that it was this idea that popped up in one of the meetings. Everyone's like, ‘ah, how does that fit in with what has been considered of the paradigms within the brand, and the frameworks, how does that fit?’ And as we unpacked it, it was even more exciting, and it was even more aligned to us as a brand us and our customer. 

And that meant when we did launch it, that the customer responded very positively and it was so well-received. In the context of COVID and the lockdowns, everyone is even more focused on the overall planet and our influence, and how every choice we make has an impact. So it's something that is really exciting. 

As you mentioned, we then applied that thinking to different parts of our business. And we know it's a journey, we absolutely acknowledge that, and we know we've got quite a way to go. But we were very, very pleased to then ban the plastic bags within the business, rollout recycled and certified, which I think is just worth everybody as a consumer getting your head around and doing a little bit of research. Just make sure when you're reading things that it is certified, that it isn't just a statement out there, that it is actually being ideally independently validated. So that's the line that we took, definitely with all of our packaging. It doesn't come from any sort of deforestation and it's all recycled and certified. 

Linking back to us as a business and our purpose, we believe that we are here to support our community, and what does that look like? And sustainability is a really critical element. And if you take that, then there's little decisions that pop up like our cleaning company. We changed cleaning companies because we wanted a cleaning company that used eco products, and that recycled. So I think it's wonderful that more and more, everyone accepts that everybody has to change a little bit. And if everyone did that, they're overall better off.

Cat wears the Visita Paisley Moss Green Sandal

You are the mother of twins. And as you just spoke about, you basically had your twins and then you got the big dream job, so it all happened at once. And a lot of people talk about the motherhood penalty, which refers to the decline in income and perceived competence and chance for career progression that comes after a working woman has children. So have you ever experienced the motherhood penalty?

Personally, no. But it’s worth unpacking that in terms of with my friends, and my cohort of people I knew, as I was one of the later ones to have my children. So I absolutely saw it.

And so when I was pregnant and I was asking, what’s some feedback from other mothers who had transitioned back into work? There was probably two things that came out pretty clear, one, it’s most often self-select out.

So it’s us choosing often to take a lower level role, or reduce hours, or take an extended period out from the workplace. And if that’s what you want to do, absolutely do it.

The second thing was I caught up for coffee with some ex colleagues who had come back into work, and had taken that path, and one said to me, ‘it was the biggest regret I’ve ever had. Because I was then at a level where I was working with colleagues who are single, who have no responsibilities of children at home, and who are showing up with extended hours, and have a capacity that they could take on board other projects.’ So her advice to me was, you go the opposite and you go up, try and put yourself in a position that you try and get basically a promotion. Because it’s a level of bureaucracy and understanding that the higher you get up, the more you can manage your diary, for instance, the more that you can have some flexibility in your hours and your time. And that was probably the biggest piece of advice.

So when I then transitioned back into the workforce, I actually had the biggest projects I’ve ever had in my career to date. And it was ‘okay, well, I’m going to just keep coming and keep showing up. I feel really uncomfortable. I’ve got to adjust my life. I literally have to drive home to jump on the breast pump. But we’re here. We’re here, and tomorrow’s another day.’ So I think that for me is the critical thing, knowing that often it is your self-selection, and then choosing which works for you because you have to answer to yourself.

How do you keep it all together? How do you do the job, and be a mother? What keeps you sane and keeps everything ticking over?

I like to say I don't keep it all together. Earlier this year I spoke at a Women in Leadership event and they gave me a topic which was, How to Have it All, managing stress and anxiety, and I just laughed. I absolutely laughed. We laugh still about it in my house. When I showed up, I said to everybody, "Look, I've been assigned this topic. They've asked me to speak on it. I'm happy to do it. I'm coming here as a CEO, I'm responsible for 500 people's lives, I take that. I'm a mum, my children are three and a half years old, they're identical girls. I feel a weight of responsibility with that. But I have been burnt out once that I admit in my life, and a lot of other times that I've become exceptionally close." And I suppose I share that and I talk to people openly about that because it's a work in progress. 

Every phase is a different phase, so I'm very much about daily habits. At the moment, my girls will still be with me in the morning so I have a coffee with them in the morning, every day, in bed. And I have a time with them that's not going to last forever, so I might as well have that now. And then I suppose I go through and I say, ‘what's important to me?’ And there are critical moments in their life are important to me so I always put those first. 

As I mentioned to you I love to have a vision board and feel like I know where I want to go.

I like to be open with my team about things and say, ‘This is my school run, this is my pickup,’ so that it feels like it sets an understanding and a vulnerability with what's going on. And then I make sure that there's time to myself, to turn up really loud music, watch crap TV, right? And know when I have to stop. 

I could work 23 hours a day and absolutely love it, because I genuinely like what I do, but I can recognise when I have to pull back and stop. And if you have that trait, I think it's really good to have somebody that can lean into you and say, ‘You need to stop now,’ or ‘You need to pull back,’ as an extra safety mechanism. 

It’s also about modeling. The best bosses I've had, for instance, wouldn't email late at night, they don't set a precedent about 24 hours a day and immediate responses. It's about considered timing and understanding of those boundaries that everybody has. 

In reality, if everything is urgent, there's a bigger problem. And that's where you have to sit down and work through. And I remember at this conference speaking to this lady and she said, ‘I take my phone into the toilet in case an email might pop up.’ And we all just looked at each other and laughed. And the thing is, we've all been there, right? But it's not necessary. It's ridiculous. We all have to take a break from these things. And that's where I think it's such an important conversation about the bigger picture, about purpose and about alignment there. Then you understand that the overall, how everybody's working together and what you're all thinking, it's way more important than an immediate urgent response.